In an attempt to keep myself from slowly going mad I foolishly 'joined' a number of Facebook groups that interested me.I say foolishly because of all the ephemera that goes with joining any Facebook group. Anyone offered a Russian bride daily?
Im not going to name names because in the main the people who contribute are decent wargaming souls and are in the same boat as me.
But what is very very obvious is that a fair percentage of postees? and members of these historical groups dont possess the inclination, wit or whatever to research the period they are collecting figures for.
Basically they cant be arsed.
Im going to put my old git hat on here so I apologise now, but when older wargamers started out, information on regiments, personalities, generals, wars and even periods was difficult to come by.
Information if found was shared whenever possible to other wargamers, sometimes in a 'know it all, arrogant sort of way' such as when an 'expert' assured me that the Russians no longer wore bicornes at Austerlitz? but then in the main it was shared with a view to helping other struggling wargamers.
Who can remember the excellent Uniformo page provided by Military Modelling? I still have the compendium they provided and still like to thumb through the magazine for inspiration, but I digress.
So getting back to the would be historical wargamers.Its clear that they think all they need to do is buy a load of unpainted figures for whatever period and then paint them, that is until they realise they havent got a scoobies about what they are doing.
'Amongst the questions asked have been some pearlers;
Did Napoleon ever go to Spain?' ...Just on holiday. [Sorry its what I thought for the answer]
'Did the Garde or cuirassiers ever get used in the peninsula?'
'What is the funny rolled up thing strapped to the box [cartridge box] at the back of the figure?
[A tampon]
'Is there any information on the Bavarian Army! and did they fight for Napoleon?'
[No]
Most experienced wargamers and I include myself here actually like to help where possible but considering just how many wonderful books and sites are available out there you really have to question what is going on.
Please accept that lockdown has become a real chore which could explain why my usual good humour has been tested but surely if one is going to spend money on the hobby one would think you would embark on a bit of research BEFORE you bought the figures.
I've used some Napoleonic examples but there have been some corkers for other periods.
I appreciate that we have generations used to being spoon fed and coddled but apart from creating groups of people who really arent very good in any sort of crisis it doesnt make for knowledgeable wargamers who love the hobby for so many reasons and not just because of the figures, and dont get me started on rules and tactics that some would be wargamers seem to find acceptable and advocate.
The Independent Wargames Group. Being a Journal of views, prejudices, ideas and photographs of wargaming not just nationwide, but hopefully world wide. The name IWG was adopted in the early 1980's in response to the then dominant Wargames Research Group, but things have moved on, and wargaming appears to be in somewhat of a Golden Age, so sit back and hopefully enjoy my rantings.
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My 6mm Napoleonic set up.
Austria 1809.
Austrian Hussars
Hinchliffe figures
Austrian Grenzer
Austrian Grenzer
Smoggycon 2013
Smoggycon 2013
Smoggycon 2012
Smoggycon 2012
Smoogycon 2009
My French getting another beating
I have a feeling that you are not alone in this. Quite a few of us have had to field and answer questions that even a cursory search online would have solved for the questioner. At least I haven’t had a phone call in the middle of the night from a wargamer asking for a rule interpretation ... but I know of one wargame designer who has! I am told that the caller got quite miffed when it was pointed out that it was the middle of the night in the UK. In reply, he said something along the lines that he was at a club game in California, and the players were stuck because they couldn’t agree of what the rule meant.
ReplyDeleteAll the best,
Bob
I heard this story too and at one time I could name the designer involved. Sadly, I cannot recall the author. Do you?
DeleteCant beat that one Bob so I should count myself lucky. To be honest I like to help would be wargamers but sadly its not just our hobby that this applies to is it.?
DeleteOn this issue Robbie I'm in full agreement with you. It's one thing to reach out and ask for help on something, say flags or part of a uniform but the recent crop of people just assume they can ask the most basic question about what uniform troops wore, etc etc drives me to despair - the question you refer to re Cuirassiers ( to me) got even worse when some of the answers effectively said does it matter! Do you what you want it's a game.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think the game aspect has taken over completely - a bit like a lot of GW fans and customers so companies like Warlord have their followers who look no where else. Their total knowledge of say the Napoleonic Wars is what's in the box, book they're sold and most of the time they're really not bothered about the history they're just playing the game!
It's not my idea of the hobby but it's the one where big companies are turning a lot of gamers into consumers.
I guess every positive has to come at a cost and seeing the hobby grow as it has, has come at the cost of the historical interest to many.
On the money as usual Graham,especially the big companies. The historical element is slowly reducing but hardly a surprise given how history isnt taught in schools. History lessons and war films were amongst my first inspirations but of course the next generation would rather watch some non entity explain how they made a cushion of their body hair.
DeleteI despair as those who ask such inane questions, I want to scream at them, "Buy a book! Read some history! Get off your couch and search for yourself!" But I don't, I just sadly look away. Our hobby is changing before our eyes, it's devolving into nothing more than Monopoly with pretty soldiers. Folk at Warlord have a great deal of responsibility in my view for the Games Workshopization of wargaming.
ReplyDeleteOne could write a book on the subject of how the younger generations have become dumb but of course no one would read it. Warlord when they took their redundancy money from Games Workshop, took their companies ethos and created what we are now experiencing. Some of the ideas were good but of course the GW mindset was sold as well. Buy the box of figures, use their set of paints and read the bumf in the rulebook and away you go. I blame the teachers. Just joking David.
DeleteWhile I recommend at least some basic research myself, I'm simply inclined to be helpful wherever possible. :-)
ReplyDeleteI am with you on being helpful. I feel sorry for those that will never experience the joy of research and discovery, though.
DeleteGentlemen its a battle wargamers will never win and if we push it we will lose a potential wargamer. What I find worrying and this is from a general view point, is these people will reach for their phone and accept that the first thing they read on a subject is correct and then accept that view point as gospel.The internet is creating generations of mindless sheep but without the cuddly wool.
DeleteBut what's a 'shako' though? ;-)
ReplyDeleteBest Regards,
Stokes
Case in point. The latest one I read on a site concerned Duffy's new edition Instrument of War. The postee asked what regiment was on the front of the book and were they Austrian? If they had been arsed to actually open the book all the information was on the frontispiece!
DeleteI'm going to wear two hats here (sorry). Many of us can remember 50 years or more of wargaming and unsurprisingly the scene and society have changed and we each probably are a product of a particular era when we were first introduced to gaming.
ReplyDeleteI don't recall it being written in stone anywhere as to how we should game, research, paint armies or understand rules. Everyone has an entitlement to do their own thing and still call it their hobby and to intermingle with the band of equally strange people (in many peoples eyes) who call themselves wargamers.
Now having said that, I am likely of a persuasion akin to those posting here, however, I don't really care about how other gamers game, as long as I am happy that in this house, I do it properly :-) so I don't think there is particularly an argument against the way others do their stuff.
We have gone through an age of needing to read rules and learn things, to playing computer games that you can just switch on and learn on the hoof without investment, to game sets in a box attractively marketed.
THe internet has had the biggest impact because now you can ask an author any question at any time and 'expect' an answer back within the day, hours or minutes, depending upon impatience levels and expectations.
We have to accept that there is now an entire generation that are Google dependent and do not have a foot in that older world.
The internet has encouraged this, so much so that if you follow any particular forum, you will see the same repeat questions, proof that the questioner has not done the basics on searching for topic or Q&A and this has become a mindset, just like reading loads of blogs, articles AAR and never thinking to stop and just adding a quick thank you to show the appreciation to the poster etc - it has become a general behaviour that the internet is free and there to serve us ... the individual.
For many years, I have been as helpful as possible, but you can have your enthusiasm squeezed out of you. My particular concern are those free loaders who use vassal to play a boardgame for free and then have the cheek to ask very basic questions of the rules from people who have paid for the game and who consider themselves helpful and these questions start arising in their tens by the same poster and their 'need' dominates the folder with noise. You find yourself standing up, going to pull the game to research the answer and then start to think .... hang on!
And it is not just about 'gamers these days' even in game clubs, you will have characters who use a massive amount of creativity and personal time to put good games on and others who ..... just turn up! it is the same sentiment.
And anyway, what's normal - would the man in the street think it is normal to have every button and piece of lace on a hussar painted or should we just spray the whole figure (and horse!) blue - you choose :-)
So, getting back to my starting point, I just think one needs to be a bit discerning in who they reply to or help on the internet and not to use the behaviour or way of how others do their hobby as some sort of barometer against one's own gaming / hobby bubble, which should be as rich as you make it yourself regardless as to what is going on in the FB world.
I would park the issue of how other gamers behave / present themselves in the same bin as the 'what will happen with my collection when I die' spectre.
Excellent response, Norm! I hope (pray) my questions on your miniatures rulesets do not fall into this same bucket.
DeleteDo you think your “normal man in the street” would consider Wargaming with miniatures “normal” let alone button counting?
Cant argue with your excellent viewpoint Norm and put in a way that asks a lot of questions of the future regarding the future and not just for wargaming. I must admit I ditched the absolute accuracy I once craved for many years ago when I started painting 6mm figures. When I returned to 28mm figures I found it was no longer that important, but I did know what was wrong on each figure. As regards the internet I find it both wonderful and terrible at the same time and during this lockdown it has taken on the aspect of a Plantir.
DeleteJonathan - no I am fine with your questions, they tend to find gaps that should have covered by the text or been better written :-)
DeleteRobbie, for the last 10 years we have despaired at the way our kids do all of their communication via the screen and now in lock down times, we are doing the same :-)
Don't you love it when they ask you what "faction" you are painting for Napoloenics....
ReplyDeleteRichard
Ah factions, bloody Games Workshop.
DeleteRobbie,just calm down and take your tablets!
ReplyDeleteQuestion on tv quiz last week-"who was prime minister during the Falklands war?"-answer,Henry the eighth!!-seriously!The person answering the question was about mid-twenties,so had a good excuse for being ignorant-no need to read books,just look at your bloody smart phone!
johnc
I was making a point in a reasoned manner you nut job. Have you noticed how most of the young contestants who usually are either students or have just completed a university course have absolutely no knowledge of anything. I often wonder why they think they can go on a quiz and actually answer any questions, well apart from their name.
DeleteRobbie-"nut job?"-charming!-I'm going to write you a nasty letter,'cos I don't know how to do E-mails,but I do know what the thing is on the bottom of the cartridge box!!
Deletejohnc.
I noticed a tendency to ask questions that could be answered in a few minutes using Google. We moaned about people not using books before, now it seems they cannot even do a search on the web.......
ReplyDelete